How Safe is Your Home? The Invisible Killer- Interview With Oram Miller

James Egidio: 0:46

Hi,I’m James Egidio,you’re hosted the medical truth podcast,the podcast that tells the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth about the American healthcare system.Over the last40years technological advances with everyday standard devices,such as smartphones,televisions,and computers with wifi routers have made significant strides in making our lives easy and convenient as well as dependent on these devices.However with that convenience comes consequences.So much so that it has taken a toll on our overall health and wellbeing in the way we feel and function each and every day.My guest is referred to as a building biologist.It is an honor and a pleasure to have on the medical truth podcast.Mr.Oram Miller.Thank you,Oram how are you doing today?Welcome to the Medical Truth Podcast.

Oram Miller: 1:36

Thank you for inviting me.

James Egidio: 1:38

Absolutely.share with the listeners and viewers a little bit about who you are and what you do with Create Healthy Homes.

Oram Miller: 1:46

I am a certified building Biology environmental consultant and electromagnetic radiation specialist certified by the building Biology Institute,which is headquartered in Santa Fe,New Mexico,where the executive director lives Michael Kahn.And we are an an affiliate organization of a German based institute called the,they have a German name.It’s the Babi Institute,and that’s German for building biology.And sustainability in their name.So that organization came into being.During the rebuilding of Europe after World War II in the1940s and fifties.And in that decade when American materials and practices were implemented in the rapid rebuilding of the housing stock after World War II some issues developed with the residents there in homes air quality issues and electromagnetic fields.And a group of sensitive individuals,residents,physicians,engineers,people who were in the building trade got together and architects and discovered that there were sources of toxicity in the homes based on the building methods that have been used compared to,or contrasting with the post and beam and daub and model construction methods that have been used in Europe for centuries.Our methods are a little different stick built with fiberglass installation.So the walls were not hygroscopic,they were not breathable.If moisture got into the walls,it didn’t dry out in sufficient time to avoid mold.So mold was one of the outcomes.And then when petroleum based products were implemented in paints and adhesives and carpet padding and carpet backing,then the outcasting from those products caused people to be who were sensitive to become ill from outgassing.And then electromagnetic fields was also discovered magnetic fields and electric fields from house wiring.And then in the latter later decades,radio frequencies,we’ll get to that.And even dirty electricity,which is magnetic and electric fields at higher frequencies.So all of that created for some people,not everyone.A toxic soup in the homes and certain people reacted adversely to that.Developed symptoms respiratory symptoms,but also fatigue,ringing in ears,brain fog,memory loss,difficulty sleeping,difficulty concentrating.These are symptoms that I hear cuz I focus now exclusively on electromagnetic fields in my practice.And so out of that came this organization called the Building Biology Institute over there and one of their graduates.And so they’re still in existence and their website is BuildingBiology.com.And one of their graduates Helmut Zia,an architect,brought that knowledge in the1980s,mid1980s to London.Tried to get that knowledge going in England.Didn’t have as much success as he was hoping for after one year.So he moved to Florida and he met an American woman,married her and started that process here in the U.S..And he’d met with success.There were people who came and took his training,who then ended up teaching for him and he had some people from Germany come over and help teach.So out of that came what he called the International Institute for Building Biology and Ecology.And I am a graduate of that program.And I’ve been doing this for decades.And so I learned chemical outgassing,mold in indoor air quality and mold assessment,water damage,and electromagnetic fields.Those are the three pillars,right?And I did that for many years in the Upper Midwest,in Minneapolis.And then13years ago,I decided to move to California where I am now in Los Angeles.And I decided at that time to not focus on air quality or mold.I didn’t care for it as much in as a practitioner.And there are good people here who I could refer to,and I have,I do.And I decided to just focus on what I really love most,which is EMF’s.So that’s what I’ve been doing for the last dozen years,13years.And so what we focus on in the e emf portion of the building biology profession is magnetic fields,electric fields,radio frequencies,and dirty electricity,which I’ll go into,And I’m a teacher now for my profession.For the last10years,I’m an adjunct faculty member not a senior member because I’m not an engineer.But I work with engineers.I was trained by engineers and I’m on the faculty.And so what we focus on is magnetic fields from house wiring,electric fields,from house wiring and these are due to current on wires and also voltage on the wire.So I have here a piece of the wire,let’s see where it is.So this is.This is what a circuit looks like inside of a home.

James Egidio: 6:15

Oh,okay.

Oram Miller: 6:15

This is the hot wire,

James Egidio: 6:17

right?

Oram Miller: 6:17

This is the neutral wire,and this is the ground wire.Current goes from the breaker panel through the circuit in the wall to a switch.And then when you flip the switch on,it goes up.So there’ll be another,so if this is the box where the current circuit comes into,and here’s the switch,here are the switches.And then out of that you’ll have multiple branch circuits that go up to the lighting loads.Correct.And so current will go on the hot wire.And what happens what happens,James,is you’ll have current flowing through this.And whenever current goes through a wire,there’s a magnetic field that circles around it in a clockwise fashion.So every electrician is taught that if you have,if you lay your hand out and you point your fingers to the left here for the right hand with the palm up.The thumb points in the direction of the current flow.So it comes from behind me to switches in front of me,right?So this is the circuit that goes from the panel to the switches.And so I’m po I’m showing the direction of the load that’s on my thumb is pointing on this hot wire in that direction.So there will be in around me a magnetic field that is invisible,silent and odorless that goes right through the wall into the living space.Wow.From that hot wire,except it’s not measured there with a gauss meter,for instance.It’s not measured there because once that current gets to the light bulbs up in the ceiling,that’s the load.And then the current goes through the filament if it’s an incandescent bulb,And comes back down on the white wire called the neutral.And so you’re starting all over again with another journey of electricity from a source.To a load which or to their destination,which is the panel back behind me.So you have two wires carrying current in opposite directions.Each with the right hand rule,meaning that now if I was to go to the light bulb and turn around and look back at where I’m standing now,it would also be a right hand turn.But if I come back here and stay where I am and I see the right hand turning of the magnetic field around the hot and the current comes back on the neutral,it’s counterclockwise,it’s going another way.

James Egidio: 8:22

So sounds like it produces like a halo effect around the whoever but the

Oram Miller: 8:26

Yeah but the halo disappears.

James Egidio: 8:28

Oh,okay.

Oram Miller: 8:28

Cause there’s two fields.So if I have a clock,it’s counterclockwise to the camera,but there’s clockwise to the camera rotating that way.But the other one has a center over here going the other way.This way.And so if I take those two.Centers,those two epicenters of the rotating fields and I bring them together.Like you have in any standard wire,right?Those two fields are now on top of each other.And if they’re equal,then they will be canceling each other.They’ll cancel each other.Now,how do I know if they’re equal?Then I work with an electrician and we can measure in the junction box where the switches are right.And he’ll open them up,he’ll take,he’ll pull the switches out and pull the wires out,and I’ve got gloves on and I hand him this,or he’s got one of these,similar to this and he’ll clamp around the hot wire while the light’s on and he’ll say,oh there’s3.2amps going up to that light.So then we measure the neutral and it’s3.2coming back.So those two magnetic fields are the same size,so they perfectly cancel each other except a little bit that comes out for a few inches because there’s a little separation of a half an inch in here.So they’re offset.Just enough for a little bit of a magnetic field.But that’s a,that’s normal.Now if those neutrals,if you have two circuits coming into that switch box,which is okay,but if the electrician doesn’t follow the National Electric Code,which says you don’t mix those neutrals,and he goes ahead and puts’em together under the same wire nut,now you have a situation where that current will go back on both neutrals.And now you don’t have the full3.2amps on that neutral.You have less because the remainder is going the other way on another neutral.And now you have a wiring error and now you will have a magnetic field in the room.I just saw it yesterday at a house here in Los Angeles.And in that room,when you turn the lights on,the magnetic field comes out of the wall into the living space where people are,that when the lights on now when you turn the lights off,it goes away.So there are EMFs that we have in the daytime and then a different set at night or some of the same remain,but others drop off.We have indoor sources of EMFs that we have control over and we can manage even in a rental.I was in a rental yesterday.And outdoor sources of EMFs that we don’t have as much control over,any control over.All we can do is shield them and magnetic fields cannot be shielded,but radio frequencies can.And then we have people who are sensitive,living in the same house as people who are not sensitive.And the sensitive person calls me up and say,we need to I need some help here.And when I get there,I say we need to cut back on your radio frequency use.You need to switch over to a landline telephone and you need to use hardwired ethernet cables for your your computer,and stop using wifi and then you’ll feel better.And then they do.And then they call me back and say,yeah,I feel better now.But their husband,he’s not on board.He wants wifi all over the house.And so I have to find a happy medium or a compromise that works right.

James Egidio: 11:14

Yeah.Yeah.So let me ask you,you mentioned different types of frequencies.You mentioned dirty electricity,you mentioned this,electromagnetic fields.I want to dissect a little bit about each one of those and Sure.And where they’re found in the home.You hear all the sentiment about phones and and wifis and all that.So let’s unpack that a little bit.

Oram Miller: 11:33

Okay.Good question.And cuz now we need to talk about fun.So I’ve given you an introduction of What our world is As a practitioner.Okay.So the first two of the four EMFs that we recognize in the building biology profession,which again,are magnetic fields from house wiring and overhead power lines,electric fields from house wiring and little bit from overhead power lines.And then the third one is the basket category called radio frequencies,which includes all wireless devices cell phones,transmitters,and the receivers.This is a transmitter as well as a receiver as opposed to a radio,which is just a receiver,so there’s a difference between these two.Both of them receive,but only this one transmits.And it’s the transmission of radio frequencies that is harmful from the from cell phones.And they transmit all the time?Not constantly.Actually the,in an iPhone,the Bluetooth is constantly transmitting.But there’s,there are intermittent transmissions,which I’ll get into from the six different antennas that are in every cell phone.Then you have the device that it’s transmitting to or connecting to within the house,which is the wifi router.So many people have routers that have wifi enable.You can disable it in most cases,not at all.And so that’s that’s putting out radio invisible,silent,odorless radio frequencies in that room,which then go through walls and you can connect to it in another room.Then you have the Bluetooth between a cordless mouse and keyboard with the computer.So those,they’re talking,so they’re transmitting the Bluetooth,talking to each other and so on.So that’s radio frequencies.And then the last category is dirty electricity which is a sort of a colloquial term that’s used by the lay public.The term used by the industry is EMI,electromagnetic interference in my profession.We have recently started calling it micro surg electrical pollution,which sort of defines it.So it basically didn’t exist60years ago.And before it only came about when.Certain devices were introduced into our electronics that basically do certain things like dimmer switches on for lights,right?Con also these lower wattage,lower electricity consuming bulbs.Light bulbs.So incandescent light bulbs literally are very inefficient and literally only10%of the electricity that’s,that goes into that light bulb.The incandescent light bulb that we’ve had for a hundred years produces the light.The,that’s as efficient as Edison could get it.After10years of his own research back in the1900’s,and so he came up with a tungsten filament,the best he could do that’s survived all this time and still is in use today.A hundred years later,10%of that electricity produces the light.90%is wasted as heat.That’s why they’re so hot right around them.Now the newer generation of light emitting diodes or LEDs and compact fluorescent lamps or CFLs it’s the reverse.90%of the electricity is used for the light,and only10%is heat.So the energy electricity consumption is much less their energy efficient,and so they’re good for the planet.So there’s a trend towards energy efficient light bulbs.The problem is they operate at different voltages than120volts,which is the voltage the pressure of electricity that are in the circuits that are in the walls.So in North America every circuit in North America is at120volts alternating current.And in Europe it’s50It’s240volts,double and we’re60cycles per second in terms of the sine wave,and they’re50cycles per second.Now that120volts,it’s called line voltage,and all incandescent bulbs were designed by Edison.A hundred years ago to operate straight off120bulbs.No need to change that.No dirty electricity.No.Okay.Now these compact fluorescent bulbs are just taking a long tube of fluorescent bulb.And then they com they compact it and they make the glass tube a lot thinner.And then they actually make it zigzag back and forth in the shape of a light bulb and then put a glass over it or not.And then you screw that in and that’s your compact fluorescent bulb and it glows.And that operates at a much higher voltage.20,000volts,I think.So there’s a transformer that has to step that up,or light emitting diodes are lower than120they’re like,I don’t know,six volts,eight,nine volts.And so you need to transformer in either case,and they use,there’s not enough room to put a wire round transformer.So they use a switch mode power supply,which is a chip based transformer.Which works good in terms of changing the voltage up for CFLs or down for LEDs from120is what,which is what comes in from the circuit.But these switch my power supplies,and I know this is very confusing produces a side effect,which is a hum.It it’s called dirty electricity.Transient voltages,EMI,electromagnetic interference.That rides on the sine wave.And you have these so you have these electric and magnetic fields at higher frequencies that come into the room through the wall,right through the plastic,and right through your sheet rock into the room.Not only do you have that at60hertz,which I haven’t discussed yet,that’s electric fields.I’ll come back to that.But the dirty electricity also comes into the room.It’s just electric fields,primarily electric.You,we don’t have magnetic fields from circuits at either.Because of the cancellation that I mentioned all at60hertz and higher frequencies.But the dirty electricity that people react to,cuz many of your viewers are people who are electrically sensitive or they know about this and they’ve read about it.Dirty electricity.I’m telling you,dirty electricity is a field that comes into the room is primarily the electric field at higher frequencies.So our definition for our students and our practitioners in the building biology profession is that dirty electricity is simply defined as electric fields at higher frequencies than60cycles per second.And when you plug in oscilloscope and we teach our students how to do that,or you can plug in a a meter which looks like this.So this is a stetzer meter and there’s a green wave meter that you can plug in and you get a number here,and then you compare it to the numbers that are on the back.And then when you plug in one of their filters,this happens to be a greenway filter,then this number goes down.So that’s how we,and you can also remove sources.That’s another way and perhaps a better way of eliminating dirty electricity in your home.And we also have whole House filter systems that can be installed from From Tamer and from s USA Static Shield in Montana the power perfect box.And also from EMF Safe in Oregon that have automatic switches.You press a button and the electric fields go off where you sleep.And they have put the PQ filter into their boxes,which also reduces dirty electricity for the whole house.So I’m just giving you an overview of these EMS and the the dirty electricity comes off of the wall through the sheet rock from the circuit,but it’s from higher frequencies from such sources as dimmer switches when they’re on compact fluorescent lights,when they’re on energy efficient furnaces,pool,pump motors.Because I won’t go into the details,but we now have energy efficient,requirements.We have devices that can reduce the consumption of electricity by a motor,for instance.And it has to do not the running of the motor,but the controlling of the motor.That’s where the we have variable speed drives or variable speed devices for furnaces,for instance.And I have clients who call me up and say they upgraded our furnace they put in this new furnace that has a variable speed thing and I can’t be in the house anymore when that thing is on.I I have no heat the minute I turn that on anywhere where I can be anywhere in the house,because during electricity goes all over the house on all the circuits to varying degrees and even from house to house.Or the neighbor put solar panels on their roof.Not the,not my clients,not the sensitive one,but the neighbor.And during the day,my client can’t be in their house because the dirty electricity comes in and I’ve measured it.I’ve been in houses,James,where I get18,1900.This thing maxes outta20001800,1900units.And I said,do you have solar panels?Cuz everywhere I go in every house,every circuit,I’m getting that number.They say,no,I would’ve told you,but my neighbor does.And I can see through the window and go to the go outside,look over the fence.There it is.And I recognize the brand.And then I happened to be in four of my client’s homes that had that phenomenon when it was in the winter.And the it got dark while I was still there wrapping up five,six o’clock and in the evening and I went back and plugged this back in.It was150.Wow.Just by the sun going down outside there,the their solar panel system shut off and their inverter,their dirty inverter stopped polluting that house and every house in the neighborhood shared by the same,served by the same utility transformer with dirty electricity.Yeah.So that’s another way that it gets into your house of neighbors.

James Egidio: 20:03

Yeah.It sounds like you can’t escape any of this.You’re talking even just regular household appliances from what it sounds like.And I’m sure with the advances in technology,some of these newer televisions,these smart TVs and all this other stuff is probably emitting a lot of that.Correct?

Oram Miller: 20:19

Yeah,like a smart TV will emit primarily RF a little bit of dirty electricity,but mostly RF,which is radio frequency.

James Egidio: 20:26

Radio frequency,

Oram Miller: 20:26

that’s right.Rf.I was in the house yesterday.There were three,four Samsung appliances.Transmitting radio frequencies right from the stove,from the back of the stove,and it all have,they all have wifi symbols on them,the oven,the the gas stove a microwave and the dishwasher,All four.You and ge they all do this now.They all have and another company has IQ technology that,so we are able to disable that in the homes of people who are electrically sensitive in most cases.Yeah.And sometimes not.So

James Egidio: 20:57

I wanna get into that with you too.But before I do,I have a couple other questions about that.You mentioned something earlier about being sensitive to these different types of electrical frequencies.How do I know if I’m EMF sensitive and if I am,what are some of the symptoms of that?

Oram Miller: 21:15

Okay.You’ll know because you have a set of symptoms and you begin to realize,you read about it,you come across this understanding,and you you learn that other people have a certain set of symptoms.You say,oh,that,that sounds like me.And then so you start to do what they do,and that is you cut back on the use of your cell phone or you put in an airplane mode and spend a few hours that way.Or you go out and get out of the house and you feel better.You come back in the house cuz there’s still wifi.And you feel worse.And so you say maybe your husband goes out to work,you’re home,the woman and you turn it off.You just unplug it.And you,you put this in airplane mode and make sure that wifi and Bluetooth are OFF not connected or not yet,or still connected to the network.In airplane mode,which can happen.These are details we have to get into.So you just make sure,or you just put it in another room,and you spend a few hours doing whatever you do,and then you realize you feel better.And then you put,take this out of airplane mode,turn the wifi back on and your symptoms come back.That’s one of the ways that you know,so again,the symptoms that I commonly hear are headaches ringing,,in the ears,brain fog,numbness and,tingling memory loss difficulty concentrating,difficulty sleeping,lethargy,chronic fatigue.These are the common symptoms that I hear from clients.Yeah.For radiofrequency exposure I,and by the way,I hear a different set of symptoms when people have predominant EMS that are different.If the predominant,everyone has radio frequencies today.Everyone has electric fields.Not everyone has magnetic fields.They’re the least common EMF,but they’re the most dangerous if you do have that,cuz they’re lethal,right?They have killed people.I have clients who have died of cancer.From what field?What time?Magnetic.Magnetic field.

James Egidio: 22:53

Magnetic.Yeah.Where do magnetic fields come from again?Okay.

Oram Miller: 22:57

All right.Again,whenever you have current flung through a wire,you’ll have a magnetic field rotating around it.You generally don’t have magnetic fields in homes because if the electrician followed the code they will not have mixed the neutrals from two different circuits,for instance.Okay.Or they haven’t mixed the neutrals in grounds,which is another thing I didn’t mention.That’s,so you can have neutral to neutral wiring errors and neutral to ground wiring errors.And we look for those,and we have a whole protocol that we teach,that I help teach in the advanced EMFs seminars,electromagnetic radiation seminars that we teach emr beginning and advanced in our profession and.So we teach our students how to talk to electricians and work with them to guide them in how to open things,switches up and find those errors,and then reconfigure things the way they’re supposed to be,the way they’re supposed to be according to code.And then you turn the lights on and there’s no magnetic field anymore in the room like there was before,right?That’s way it’s supposed to be.But you can have magnetic fields coming in from outside.Like just this morning I had a gentleman call me from Mississippi,who I’ve worked with years ago,and he’s moved and he’s having a lot of symptoms in his home.And it turns out he has transmission lines outside of his home that he didn’t pay attention to when he moved in there.And he has a gauss meter.I said,do you have a meter?I thought you did.He said,yeah,but I don’t know how to use it.So I taught him how to use it this morning on the phone,and he walked out into his yard and he’s got magnetic fields there that come right through the wall of the house and the roof into his living space.And it’s affecting him.Yeah.And that’s one thing we can’t do anything about.There’s no solution for that.

James Egidio: 24:25

Where,what are some of those those magnetic fields from external sources outside of your house?Give me an example or give the viewers and listeners an example.Some of those things that would transmit those magnetic fields that are dangerous.

Oram Miller: 24:37

Power lines.Overhead.Power lines.Oh,okay.Or even underground lines.So with power lines,they’re,they don’t insulate them.And I asked why,and the technicians told me,because the heat that’s generated by the amount of current that flows on those things is so great that it burns up the insulation and it just disintegrates over months.And you and it falls to the ground and UV light from the sun destroys it.So in the last few decades,they are,especially the high trans high power transmission lines,but even the neighborhood distribution lines,primary and secondary,they’re just not insulating them anymore.They’re leaving them bare,but they can’t have them together unless they’re insulated.And if they’re bare,they have to keep’em apart,six feet or so,so that the wind doesn’t knock’em together.Cuz if the wind,if they touch,they’ll short out,right?And then they’ll check the breaker and plunge at the substation and plunge the whole neighborhood into darkness.But even if they get close enough for arcing to occur,especially with in more moist air,then that’ll also trip the breaker.So they have to be far enough apart that the wind will not knock them together.And then there goes your cancellation.So when you start pulling these wires apart,they cancel the magnetic field that surrounds them,which can go,dozens of feet into,and it goes right through walls,right through ceilings,into homes.We can’t shield it.Not a field that’s big,that’s that big.Then the,there’s nothing we can do about it.And it ebbs and flows.It’ll be lower lowering the daytime.And lower at night.Highest in the evening when everyone’s home in,in residential neighborhoods and turns on their lights and cooking and laundry and such.And then it drops lowest overnight and then back up in the morning.And it’s also all the,all of that,the diurnal change from day to night is all lifted up higher in the summertime when there’s air conditioning use.It’s hot,and you run air conditioning247,right?Then the whole curve goes up.So whatever you measure on a given day and a given part of the year,bear in mind that the number could be higher or lower depending on what time of day you’re thinking about.And at that same distance from the wire,from the lines and also a different part of the year.It can be different,right?So now the other thing that can happen in a residential neighborhood.So it’s not good to live near high attention power line.And if you really wanna know,you just have to get a gauss meter or hire somebody from the Building Biology profession.Now,my website is CreateHealthyHomes.com.It’s,so you see the name of my business,just put it together with no space between the words and put a.com at the end.And that’s my website.But you can also go to BuildingBiologyInstitute.Org.And building biology institute.org is the website for the Building Biology Institute.And then you can go at the top to find an expert and then click on Certified Consultants.And then click on Electromagnetic Radiation Specialists,like again,those letters after my name there to start with.And then you’ll see all of our practitioners alphabetized by state and can,and then Canada is all under”C”.And find somebody in your area and hire them and come to your house and do these measurements for you.And some of us do long distance evaluations over the phone as well,where we guide you to get your own meters and then you can.Test yourself,and then tell me the data and then we figure out what to do.So in residential neighborhoods,most of the time the magnetic field that you might have,if you have power lines along the back of your backyard in,for two rows of houses on different streets that back up to each other,there’ll be power lines along that backyard there,right?So you’ll measure a magnetic field in the back,third of your backyard,but by the time you get halfway or a third of the way towards your house,it dissipates and then it’s low and it stays low.So you get to your house and it’s low through your house,you’re fine.But there are some neighborhoods where it’s high,very high under the power lines,and it’s still high when I get to the back of the house.And I can still measure a magnetic field above one milligals,which is our safe limit in the house from the power line.And if I walk around inside of a house and I get2,3,4,5,10milligals in there.That’s not good.Something’s wrong.And I’ll look around,I’ll look out the window for the overhead power lines,and I’ll say,all right,I see them in the backyard,or I’ll see them on the street,whichever they are.And I walk in that house towards the part of the house,the front or the back,where the power lines are,and the number steadily goes up,and I’m in the room and everywhere I move,my meter high,low,left front,back.I get the same,virtually the same number.That’s a power line.Yeah.And so I go there and I walk out the door and I’m towards the the power line,and it’s higher.And then I turn around and come back and it goes slower,lower,slowly.And I get to the,to that front door.If they’re on the street and I’m at four Milligals,I’m not down to one yet.And I go into the house and I keep going from there,or I go to the side of the house and go just from the front yard to the side yard,to the backyard,past the house.I get the same number outside as they do inside.That’s a power line.And there’s nothing we can do about that.Yeah.Unless there’s a broken neutral in a house in the neighborhood and we are able to fix that.I to get hopefully,and I have done this a few times,get the utility to find that and fix it.Yeah.It’s not always possible.

James Egidio: 29:32

It sounds like what you’re saying too though,is that if you’re living like literally almost underneath these power lines,that’s where you’re most affected.But I guess from what it sounds like too is that this emission of this radiation dissipates as you get further away from being under,directly underneath that power line.Is that correct?

Oram Miller: 29:53

Linearly,linearlly.It’s like one over R or one over R squared.Right now you get you get a one over r cubed reduction when you move away from a point source of magnetic field exposure,which is one of the indoor sources,which I haven’t mentioned,which is,Motors and transformers.Those have very high by magnetic fields like the fan motor of an air purifier,for instance.Oh,okay.Or a fan or under your feet at your desk.The under uninterrupted power supply,that battery backup.Or a base unit for a speaker system for your computer.Those all have very high magnetic field levels,or even these transformers that you plug in.Some of them,the old wire wound ones,they have big magnetic fields that can go out one or two feet.The new switch mode,power supplies don’t,no magnetic fields,but they have dirty electricity.So the point is,there are point sources throughout the house and from the breaker panel where that is the refrigerator motor.So you don’t wanna have a bed or a couch or a chair on the backside of a refrigerator,because that’s gonna come on every20minutes and have a magnetic field that comes out two or three feet into the room in all directions.It generally doesn’t reach the front of the refrigerator where you stand occasionally,depending on the design of the motor.So those are point sources.Now,transformers for the neighborhood,that’s a big transformer,and it could be in a green box on the ground or even underground or in a gray can up on the on the utility pole.But the magnetic feel from that drops off within four or five feet.And I know this because I don’t go up the poles,but if I’m in a neighborhood with underground power lines and there’s the green box and someone calls me and it’s on the corner of their property and they’re worried about it,I,they either live there or they want to buy the house.So I come out and I know what I’m gonna find.I tell’em it’s not gonna be a problem.And so I take my gauss meter and I go right up and I put it right on top of the green box and it’s,yeah it’s two300millivolts.But within one foot,it’s down to64.And then two feet,it’s down to12.Three feet is down to two and four feet.It’s down to0.3,which is the ambient level for the yard and the house.So that magnetic field for that transformer up on the pole is dissipates before you,if you climbed up that pole and carried,a gauss meter,you wouldn’t measure an increase until you’ve got three quarters of the way up that pole within four or five feet of that.

James Egidio: 32:05

Yeah.So what about someone who lives underneath or close to a cell phone tower?

Oram Miller: 32:10

That’s a whole different situation.

James Egidio: 32:12

So tell the viewers and listeners a little bit about that.

Oram Miller: 32:15

Okay.So radio frequencies as opposed to magnetic fields,radio frequencies are designed to,to transmit because they carry the information that you are getting,that you’re transmitting either receiving receiving and transmitting.So we talk about vice calls,we talk about texts,emails,web surfing,and then streaming tv.And then you’ve got baby monitors,surveillance cameras,thermostats,everything that’s wireless in homes now.And they’re putting wifi devices and apps in tennis rackets and toothbrushes and baby’s diapers.And so that when your baby’s diaper gets wet,you’re,you get a message on your phone to let you know because of an app.I’m not kidding.It’s just everybody is putting wifi and Bluetooth into everything that they make and sell.It’s a minefield for anybody who is sensitive.Now,research shows that every human being and animal and insects,the whole of the biosphere is being affected by radio transmissions now and.One of the good resources for this is Generation Zapped,which is a documentary that was put together by a client of mine here in,in Hollywood Sabino Gemayel.And she interviews a gentleman from Sweden and his name is Ole Johansson,one of the professors there.And he says that we have now increased the radio frequency presence by quintillion relative to what it used to be.And I may have the wording of exactly how he phrased that wrong but we have many orders of magnitude of invisible,silent,and odorless radio frequencies permeating our living space compared to just a few decades ago now the strength of the radio frequency signal drops off exponentially from every transmitter.Whether it’s a radio transmitter on the top of a mountain like we have here in Los Angeles,or top of a building or a tower in places that don’t have the mountains.And so radio stations have put out50,000watts of energy to transmit that signal through the air and they shape where they want to send it.In terms of the population and AM is more to the ground in terms of,it’s it’s amplitude modulation FM is frequency modulation.That’s a line of sight.And TV is the same way,line of sight.And so that,we’ve had that for a hundred years,80years since1920.But the cell,this came out of the army in the1950’s and60’s And then certain companies wanted to commercialize it and they did.And so these are transmitters as well as receivers.So in a typical cell phone,you have six antennas.You have the.The voice and the data are at the frequencies that have been purchased by Verizon,T-Mobile,AT&T and now Dish,which is the fourth company,sprint,got absorbed by T-Mobile.And so in each city they have specific frequencies,generally in the600megahertz,700megahertz,850,900,1800,1900,21,23,25,2700.That’s the f the range of fourth generation long-term evolution,4G lte,E and4G is just a a marketing tool or basket phrase.And also something that,that the sell industry uses when it’s talking to customers,right?But the radio engineers who design all this stuff,they don’t talk in terms of3g,4g,5g,6g.They talk about release15,16,17,18.And this is from the third Generation partnership program,three gpp,which is a co consortium of the world’s cell companies that have committees.And they,and this is all on my website,create healthy homes.com.You click on education where all the articles are.And in the welcome page,right in the middle there,say for use of cell phones,5g,say for use of computers.I have these articles,featured articles.And then there’s also a menu there.You’ll see the5g.I have a whole article on5G on fifth Generation Cell technology.And I can talk about that cuz I have a new meter here to supplement another meter that I’ve had for six months from Brian Hoyer from Shielded Healing.And this just came out from Safe Living Technologies from Rob Metzinger,who’s a colleague of mine and I teach with him in the building biology profession.And so these two meters measure the millimeter wave5g,which is up in the high band of28and39gigahertz.This one measures both of those.This one measures the28gigahertz.And then you have other meters like this one,which is been around for a few years,safe and Sound Pro two.And then there’s a little one called the Classic two,which measures in the the4G and the low band5G in the low band and mid band frequencies from200megahertz to eight gigahertz.And then we also have other meters like this one.This is a gigahertz solutions meter that has the same,basically the same frequency range as this one does.Yeah so these generations,James,have to do with the decade during which technology was deployed.So when technology for cell phones first came out in the1980s,it was called first generation,and that was,so anything that was de deployed,In terms of the the technology for the radio and then the shaping of the signal and the broadcast of the signal to the antenna,all of that,all the physics involved with that was called first generation technology.And then you had receivers in your cell phone at that time,which was only voice.And then second generation was in the nineties,and that added text,that’s it,that’s all you had.Third generation was the22thousands,that first decade of,okay.And then that added web access.And then fourth generation,which is just the last decade we just finished,enhanced that in terms of making it faster.And a lot of advancements with that.And it turns out that all these generations overlap each other.They it is not like everything that was deployed in the19.Nineties stopped working and a whole new a set of equipment started working on January1st,2000.And actually this transition tends to occur in the eighth year of a decade now.So in2008,that’s when we started getting4G in2018was when we started getting the deployment of5g.And the deployment of6G will come in2028generally.So it’s,but but what we have,like when you have the deployment of4G equipment,3G is still there and two G for that matter,right now,they’re phasing out to sec second gen,and all the stuff that they implemented in the1990s is being phased out and replaced,so it won’t even be supported anymore in on a phone that’s older,that two G’s going away and three G’s being phased out as well.But4g,that’ll,that’s still the predominant tech technology,all that stuff that was deployed in the2010s.Was,is still with us and will be with us for ano another20years.And it’s still the bulk5G is a small percentage.Yeah.So5G is what has been deployed since2018.And so these generation,these releases released15,16,17,18.If you look at the list,and I talk about this in my5G article,you’re talking about technologies that,that change with each generation,like standalone technology versus non-st standalone massive mi mo versus multiple input,multiple output in terms of how many antennas they have,and the beam forming technology they have to use for the high band5G as opposed to the mid band and low band5g,which is mixed in with4G actually,and a little bit higher than4G in the mid band.So the question is not what is the number,the question is,As far as we’re concerned as building biologists and others like Brian Hoyer and Shielded Healing,who’s an expert on this and all the engineers that we know,Alistair Phillips in England who invented the acoustic meter and Trevor Marshall,who lives here in Southern California and engineers in Israel.There,there’s some prominent engineers who are with our group.And we know each other and we interact and we learn from each other as far as we’re concerned.What’s most important is what is,what are the technologies?And there is a dozen of them,two dozen of them and they mod,they’re modulating the signal more and more,even4g,which is the predominant technology used for data and voice still.The amount of5G in the millimeter wave is still1%.

James Egidio: 40:05

When you say modulating,what do you mean by that?

Oram Miller: 40:07

The shape.Okay.Good question.It’s the shaping of the signal in the radio.Before it’s transmitted.And then how is it transmitted?Even4G and low band and mid band5g,cuz4G is all in the low and mid band that means600megahertz to one gigahertz or1000megahertz.That’s the low band.The mid band is technically defined as any transmitted mission from one gigahertz to six gigahertz.Now there’s a lot of transmissions from six gigahertz all the way up to20,which is the beginning of the high band,the millimeter wave band,which is called the millimeter wave band because the wavelength is a few millimeters,three to five millimeters.It’s a half an inch.But the wavelength down in the4g,low and mid band and low band5G down there is15inches down at600megahertz.And then it gets smaller closer together as you get more of them per second.And when you get up to2.4gigahertz,that’s five inches.And then the mid band,which is three and a half to4.2gigahertz.That’s now down to two inches.And the wavelength determines whether the signal will get through a wall.So lo all the,all4G gets through walls,that wall out here and windows.5g I have found out in the millimeter wave,does not go through walls.It does go through glass.

James Egidio: 41:18

Why is that?

Oram Miller: 41:20

Because of the wavelength.It’s just the physics of it.If you understand the physics then see so we are applying the physics,we’re learning from the industry.I have been to three out of,so all three5G conferences that the Mobile World Congress or another organization put on called the Mobile World Congress America.And then they renamed it Mobile World Congress,Los Angeles.They moved it from Silicon Valley to Los Angeles in2018.I went that,I spent two days there in the LA Convention Center where they had the car show and been there for that.And then I went back for the5G conference.And I wandered around and I didn’t wander.I said so I went to all four antenna manufactured booths,Erickson,Nokia,Motorola,and Samsung.And I spent hours,two days asking these guys questions after question,picking their brain cuz they were just standing there talking to people.And yeah,I’d listen in on other conversations between,because they’re all engineers or they know what engineers know when they’re talking to engineers from the cell companies.And I’m listening to the conversations and learning from it.And then I go to webinars now and I and I go to,went to the lectures that they had and I did that in2019.Didn’t have it in2020cuz of Covid came back in2021,went to that.And then last year they had it the same week that I taught for my profession and they moved it to Las Vegas.So I couldn’t go this year.It’s still in Las Vegas.I’m going in late September for two days with a couple of colleagues from my profession.And it’s in that setting that I get to ask these guys,how does this work?What is the difference?What are the mechanics?What are the physics of it?And that’s what’s important because people constantly ask us as building biologists,what are,what is my risk?How is this5G or all of this going to affect me?Now we know this is well discussed in the5g literature,both podcasts,interviews,like you’re doing articles and testimonials from individuals who don’t know the physics,but they know what they experience and they know how they could tolerate the4G Verizon cell tower in their neighborhood.They could walk out there and then they say,the truck came along a couple years ago,did something.And they said,what are you doing?Oh,I’m putting5G up there.And now these guy,these people were electrically,hypersensitive,EHS.They can’t go out and take a walk anymore.They’re they react.Or maybe the guy says,we’re just upgrading our4G equipment and they can’t go out there because it’s now4G advanced.That’s where the modulation comes in.Yes.Change signal.

James Egidio: 43:39

So what are some of the health effects though of this?There’s gotta be some kind of consequences to all this upgrading and more powerful transmission of these radio frequencies,right?Oh yes.So what are some of them?You hear about cancer brain tumors a lot.

Oram Miller: 43:54

Okay.There are organizations I’ll start with a new one.The International Commission for the Biological Effects of EMFs,ICB EMF and international Commission for the Biological Effects of emf.So yes,ICBE I think those are dash on there,EMF dot.Com or.org.And this is an organization Libby Kelly in Tucson and a number of other people have put together to be a a resource,excuse me,in terms of studies and research.Another one is Environmental Health Trust.So EhTrust.org,I think is their website.Environmental Health Trust,again,that’s an excellent compendium of research studies and there are many others that are out there that that have been in existence for years documenting the studies.Thousands of studies by researchers,mostly outside the United States who are documenting the health effects.And they have a whole list of them.The Bio Initiative Working Group put out a report in2007at Bioinitiative.org.All one word,bio initiative,you have to spell it correctly.And then they upgraded that they,so they first released it in2007,then they spent another five to six years looking at more research that was just coming out.And it there’s quite a bit of it every year.And so they put out an update in2012,2014and they have a colored chart,five four and a half page chart that has sample research at levels below the level that the FCC Federal Communications Commission in the United States says it’s safe and say,no,it’s not safe.Look at all these studies.And they color coded it by organ system in the body,cardiac,respiratory digestive endocrine,neurological,reproductive,all these different organ systems.Other people have done a great job.I won’t repeat them what they’ve said because you have other resources that cover that.I’d like to spend more time on how to understand this properly and how to assess it with the different meters and then how to

James Egidio: 45:47

I’ll have you on again.Yeah,we’ll talk about that in the next episode on that.We’ll even do this as a second two part series,probably more than likely.

Oram Miller: 45:55

Happy to.Yeah.But so there are many now here’s,so let me just give you some information that most people are not hearing from the EMF community.And I say this with support,with respect,with love cuz I I’m not sensitive myself just as an aside,but half of my clients are.So everyone is affected on a cellular level even with a two minute call there.There’s al,there’s heat shock proteins DNA damage,right?Damage to DNA when it unfurls and it’s ready for,and it’s transcribing a damage by Theron damage.All of this happens on a cellular level.When you have,when you are in close proximity to a radio transmitter,it could be right,an earbud,it could be the cell phone next to your head,or even in front of you here because it’s not a million or2million pulsing half a million to a million.You’ll get numbers like that when if I turn this on.And okay.And then

James Egidio: 46:45

how much are some of those meters with the audience,share with them the average price of some of those.How much can they,and where can they purchase those?Okay.

Oram Miller: 46:52

Slt.com.Safe Living Technologies.Actually type in SafeLivingTechnologies.com,all one word,right?And then they have,so this is$380and you can buy it in four installments,by the way.And that’s the US dollars.This is brand new.I’m one of the beta testers,and I got this two and a half weeks ago,and I’ve been testing it here in Los Angeles Santa Monica,Los Angeles.And I’ve seen four or five installations now.And this is nine$890or$900now.And this is also the FM five.And I’ve had Brian Hoyer bless his heart.He’s really been educating people along with Nick Pinau.And they lectured together.They work together.They have workshops and seminar,right?And he gifted this to me,nine a thousand dollars meter six months ago.So who does to him?And I’ve been using it and I haven’t really found that’s the point.A lot of my clients’homes in suburban neighborhoods,they keep reading.They’re,we’re gonna have5G on in front of every third house.That’s what the industry says would be needed because the wavelength is so short that the good reception of5G peters off within a block.And I,I’ve demonstrated that in the last two weeks with this thing and this thing because I’m now finding them.And,because before I kept going,when I go to a client’s houses,James,I,this is like nothing.It’s not rising.It’s not high.This is right.Always is,to varying degrees.But this,no,because I’m not,there are no millimeter wave trans transmitters in front of many suburban.Streets and Homes.Okay.Right now there’s the C-band and there’s4g,small cell antennas,but not millimeter wave,which is all at this.Now you can configure this to measure the mid band and low band,which it’s possible to do as well on this meter.This,but I have this already,so this is what I use for those bands where the4G is and the low band and mid band5g.But but the value that I’ve had for this for the last six months is to,is my clients.I’m saying I’m not fighting it.And they said,oh,I’m so glad,cuz I was worried that it might be because I heard every third house is gonna is having it.I said,no,that doesn’t mean that they’re going to put it there.Just because they say it it should,doesn’t mean they’re gonna put it there,right?Because it’s a hu tens of thousands of dollars per array to,to put up a5G millimeter wave,which only goes,it’s mostly an outdoor phenomenon where they put’em.And so far in the last two weeks where they’ve found it with this meter is on heavy.Heavily traveled streets where there’s high pedestrian traffic.But you get a block in on either side to the residential neighborhood,you don’t get it from this.And even when I put these side by side and there’s a4G and a five millimeter wave5G in4G and millimeter wave5g array together,this’ll be this guy will show half a million micro watts from meter to squared,just across the street.And this will show a hundred,maybe a thousand.That’s it.So the RF density is much higher in the4g realm in the low and mid band,including low band and mid band5g,which is there more modulated.And it’s harmful.And that’s the thing I want people to know,whereas the millimeter wave,which we’ve been hearing about the phased array dig beam formed signals are not as prevalent as people think.What’s really of concern is the produ is the cell industry running outta bandwidth for the me legacy macro towers that especially the4g,that’s still the bulk,the backbone of the data transmission which goes out for a mile and a half reliably.And it’s always on.4G is always on,it’s always there.Whether it’s1,800to a thousand watts from a big legacy tower,you know what those look the tall,skinny ones?Yeah.For,or they’ll put a shorter one that goes into a neighborhood.It might be a hundred watts or400watts,but that’s always on.In front of houses.That’s not good.But what also,and then the,and then the C band is in the mid band and it’s mixed in now,and that’s always on too.Now the millimeter web band is still to this day,primarily restricted to commercial areas and heavily traveled streets.And that’s where it is.And Verizon’s the company that’s been doing it.T-Mobile hasn’t expanded because when they acquired Sprint,they got their2.5gigahertz mid band signal,which,which has been around for five years,and that’s fast enough,that’s10times faster than4g,and all their customers are happy with that.And Verizon didn’t have any of that.So Verizon outbid AT&T for the C-band,which is3.5to4.2,which is the sweet spot because it’s a wavelength that can go through buildings but it can be it’s instead of12to48megabits per second,which is where all4G is,it’s in the low band.And and the lower mid band this upper mid band is in,250,180to two50megabits per second.That’s10times faster.And people notice that with the C-band from Verizon.And then AT&T has some of the C-band.And then there’s a citizen’s broadcast radio service,which is3.4to3.5.That’s coming online later this year.So there,so the big thing that people need to take away from this is,and I discussed this on my website in an update the5G is everybody who talks about5g,in my opinion,in the EMF community,should say it’s harmful.There are three kinds of5g.There’s high band,yes,that’s harmful,but it’s more restricted to the these high density urban areas and a little bit into the suburbs,but on,on heavily traveled roads.But then there’s mid band and low band5G mixed in with4g.And but really what you need to pay attention to as much is your exposure to your own devices,which has the same energy transmitting in your personal space,whether it’s next to your head or,in on your,in your pockets.

James Egidio: 52:20

That was my next question is how do you.Minimize the EMF exposure on these radio frequencies and magnetic frequencies.

Oram Miller: 52:27

Okay?You have to think inside versus outdoors.And the rule of thumb in both cases is reduce use,increase distance and favor hardwired connections.So what my clients who call me up who say I’m electrically sensitive,and I’ve done everything that I know to do that I’ve read in the general EMF literature.I’ve opted outta my smart meter.I shut my wifi off at night and I and I’m hardwired from my principal computer.And I put chips and pendants and stickers on my phone which have some benefit.

James Egidio: 52:57

They do work those chips and pendants those like dots,things that you put on your computer,or,I have one of’em on my wifi device and on my it’s called power guard.Okay those things work.

Oram Miller: 53:07

It depends on your definition of work.Do they work?And the answer is,it depends on how you look at it.So here’s my analysis and my profession’s analysis.First of all,for the vast majority of them,and there’s only one that I can remember that,that baffled us because it did change.But for all of them,there’s no change in our meters.Oh.But that’s not how they work the way they work.However it is,whatever the technology is those chips change the way the human physiology responds to the radiofrequency affecting it.So what is a reduction in DNA damage.So they had two cages of rats.First of all,they had a cage with no cell phone.Then they put a cell phone over this one,and they did document DNA damage for these rats.That didn’t occur here more this is just a control,really.Not much going on,but there was some DNA damage here.Then they had two,two cages with both of the same cell phone,but one had the chip and the other one did it.There was less DNA damage to the rats in the cage than had the chip,than the one that didn’t.So that’s real.That’s not psychological or psychosomatic or,power suggestion.That’s a real phenomenon that was documented with DNA damage and that has been replicated by other studies thermography.

James Egidio: 54:19

So what you’re saying is those chips do absorb some of these

Oram Miller: 54:22

no,it’s not absorbing through some quantum mechanical coherence generating property.That is not understood by modern physics.It’s quantum physics,whatever that means.That goes back,a century with.Einstein and the Russians are way ahead of us on this and the Germans for that matter,right?With their understanding of quantum physics.And,it gets into chakras and subtle energies,which I’m a big fan of and I know a fair amount about.So that’s why I’m open to this and I’m open to results.I’m open to data.I’m open to people’s experiences and thousands of people report they feel better when they use these chips.So I say to my colleagues,some of the engineers,most of my colleagues who I teach with,they’re open and we have a policy statement on our,on the Building Biology website.And I have one on my own website.And I help with the,create the wording of the one on the building biology website about the,this,these subtle energy devices,which is,we’re neutral about them.We always say,find the sources in your home and get rid of them first.Cuz if you have four aray with burning that cigarettes fill in your room with smoke and the guy comes along and says,buy my air purifier,we’ll reduce the smoke.It does.It’s not wrong,but there’s still smoke being generated by the ashtrays.We know how to find the ashtrays.And that’s not easy to do in many cases.We can find,because all of these EMS are,they’re not like cigarette smoke that you could see and smell and I grew up with in the fifties and sixties when I was a kid.Sure,I remember that.And I didn’t like it.But I have,you have no idea that the frequencies are here until I turn this thing on and then it’s huge and I turn it off and I,and and they say what?Wifi?I don’t hear any wifi.It’s there,you just don’t know it unless you feel it or you use a meter that shows it.Okay.And so then it’s,so for the electrically sensitive people they need to be hardwired.They need to follow these recommendations.For those who are asymptomatic,it’s a matter of risk ratio.Or risk.What is your risk of developing symptoms?We don’t know.You may go through life and never have symptoms,but in terms of these chips we say get a building biology or evaluation,or an evaluation by somebody,shielded healing or a geo vial or these other,there are a few other people who train people to Chris Anderson,and I think that’s his name.Electrician in Tucson and Michael Newark out in San Francisco.He trained some people who learn how to assess homes for ems and you go to building biology institute.org.You go to find an expert.We have a whole list.The German building biology profession has people in Europe,in Australia and New Zealand who,who know how to do this work.And then get an assessment or get some meters and just read our websites and follow this as much as you can yourself or call us up and we’ll help you,yeah.Long distance and then reduce your exposure.And then you can still put a chip on here.I’m fine with that.I have no problem with that.But as an adjunct,not as your sole or exclusive way of.Of minimizing it.Yeah.I call attitude quote.

James Egidio: 57:02

It’s interesting,I,my question to you too is,I know this thing with electric cars,have you used any of those meters with electric cars?Oh,being inside of an electric car and what I drive,how much?Oh,you do?

Oram Miller: 57:13

Oh yeah.I love it.And they don’t James.I got113miles per gallon now.

James Egidio: 57:17

That’s all good,but I guess my question is there’s gotta be

Oram Miller: 57:20

I’m Prime and I can drive anywhere.I have no restrictions on that.

James Egidio: 57:23

But I’m saying is it emitting anything?

Oram Miller: 57:25

Oh,yeah.Actually Okay.Depends.Cars are a whole nother topic.All four EMS are in there and they don’t follow the same rules that they do in houses.It’s a different wiring structure and a whole different environment.Okay.First of all,when I’m in the first30miles is on battery,I charge it up.And then it switches over to the gas cuz it’s a hybrid and it’s,

James Egidio: 57:44

no,I’m talking about not a hybrid,but I’m talking about,no.

Oram Miller: 57:47

All right.But when I’m the first30miles I’m exact.It is an electric car.It’s like a pre Tesla.Tesla or a leaf for,all these other pure electric cars that are on the market now.And there’s zero magnetic fields,no ac magnetic fields at all,anywhere in my car.Now,when the engine kicks on,guess what?There are myths and misunderstandings.And I say this with a lot of love and support that float around in the EMF community just because people who are suffering,they’re not engineers,they’re not trained,they don’t understand the physics,they just know that they hurt and that they found a way to reduce their symptoms.And that’s great.And then they’re write about it.And then other people who are electrically sensitive read that and say,oh,I can do the same or that,that applies to me.But it turns out they have a different smart meter brand.They have different sources of EMF’s and it’s not the same as the other person.And they make conclusions that,so they’re overgeneralizing and they’re doing their best to understand a very complicated topic.So we do our best to help sort it all out and just look at each home individually and come up with a whole list of assessments and mitigation strategies that apply to that particular home and go with that for that person.And that’s what everyone should do.But anyway so every one of the myths is that gasoline powered cars or whatever we’re been driving all these years is fine.And battery powered cars pure electric cars are full of EMF’s guess what?It’s exactly the opposite.All gasoline engines have high magnetic fields.From what,from the alternator and the way that the electric circuit,it’s mostly24volts dc by the way,which you can’t even measure with an AC gas meter.But but there is it’s80volts AC I’m told,and it can even vary in my car.The voltage varies the AC voltage,but the way that they’ve arranged it is that the hot wire comes out and then it goes along on the,like for instance,in one car,this one guy in our profession demonstrated this to us and he took some readings in our monthly study group within our profession.And he said,look,the hot wire’s going right across the firewall on the engine side of the firewall,right where your legs are for the driver and the passenger.And the,they don’t have a neutral wire.They use the grounding system of the whole car,the chassis of the car as the return path back to the battery or back to the alternator.Excuse me,there’s no cancellation whatsoever.That’s why there’s huge magnetic fields coming through the firewall where your feet are in a gasoline powered car.Now,when you’re driving a,a pure electric car,you don’t have that.It’s all DC and this thing shows nothing.It’s not a harm,it’s not a until the gasoline engine kicks on in my car.And then I Then this goes up

James Egidio: 1:00:18

and then you go back into your house where you have all,you’re exposed to everything then?No.I no.It’s pretty,pretty low here where I live.I made sure of that,so I guess,yeah,I know we’re going into a technol or a technological world where we,where there’s this term called Internet of Things,meaning these smart homes.To me,it seems as though we’re getting into a n area where you’re increasing your exposure to a lot of these radio frequencies and magnetic frequencies,and there’s also a term called internet of bodies.Which they use these RF chips that are gonna be inserted and there’s a couple companies,publicly traded companies that is,that’s already using this technology outta Sweden for internet of bodies,which is these RF chips.And you start talking about these chips that get inserted,right?With quantum,they call’em quantum tattoos,quantum computing that again,like you were saying earlier from the very beginning of this episode with the transmission of data,because that’s what this is all about.At the end of the day,I’m aware of that,the transmission of data.And from what I had done some research and reading on going down that rabbit hole of internet of bodies and quantum tattoos is Rice University did some research and I’m actually gonna even be doing an upcoming episode on that,more than likely a solo podcast episode on it on quantum tattoos.But it was being,like I said,the research was being done at Rice University and it talks about putting data on these quantum tattoos that go underneath the skin using luciferase dye and for vaccine passports.So this was all research that was done,pre covid.We also talked about central bank digital currency,and the use of this technology to basically put all your banking information on and put your vaccine passports and your medical data and all that stuff can be stored.Yeah bio data.Yeah.Bio data with a chip.That’s inserted in you,correct to me from what you’re saying with radio frequency.Once you’re,you have a chip inserted in your radio frequency chip,there’s no reversing that.And that to me sounds very damaging health wise.And even a lot of private,of course,obviously privacy and legal issues as well.If that’s something that’s going to come to fruition anytime soon,what do you foresee in terms of health consequences to that?

Oram Miller: 1:02:49

So the application of that technology and what it does to our privacy and,the deep state government control over people both nationally and internationally is enormously concerning for all the reasons you’ve just mentioned.There are many people who are bringing that to our attention and we need to pay attention to that and oppose it.From a technological standpoint to answer your question.

James Egidio: 1:03:11

Yeah.Yeah.Based on your technology and what,or your research in your industry,putting something like that in somebody that’s irreversible.What kind of exposure am I receiving if I have a radio frequency device in my,in between my thumb and my forefinger?

Oram Miller: 1:03:25

I’ve got news for you.We’re already a decade or two into that in terms of the equivalency of the of the what it would be like.If you realize that these things will,would be transmitting.And what we don’t know is whether it be constant or intermittent or just when it’s triggered.And that has to do with battery life,right?But we already have a situation.James,where the whole population now has a radio transmitter in their pocket.

James Egidio: 1:03:55

Yeah.No,I know,but at least I can take this thing and throw it in the ocean by way.Not James,

Oram Miller: 1:04:00

but James.I hear that every day.But do you,no,let’s take you outta the equation.But the average person out there,they have this,my clients here in la everywhere I’d go and go to the grocery store.I was driving down the street.I,and I was,and I’m paying more attention.I should have done that all these months with this thing,sorry,out the window.But now I’m putting this out the window,and I’m driving around and I’m realizing there is more5G millimeter wave exposure than I thought.But while I was doing that,I happened to notice all these people walking by everyone James has a cell phone.Has a cell phone,right?Everyone,every single person,it’s in their hand.It’s in their pocket.They’re talking,or I,they’re talking and their hands are,and they have an earbud.The earbud is connecting by Bluetooth to their phone,and then the phone’s connecting to the cell tower,their phone’s in their pocket.But here’s the thing,their brain is now getting irradiated by the Bluetooth,by the earbud.And they,and people walk around with that thing in their ear all day long.

James Egidio: 1:04:54

They do.My wife does that too.

Oram Miller: 1:04:56

Okay.And and then they have this in their pocket all day long.Yeah.So James,and this is much more powerful than any tattoo ever will be.You so me repeat that.So yes.I have never even thought about it before until you’ll mentioned it.But I’m telling you the power density of a tattoo,it,this has the capacity for ba A battery in here.Yeah.And this has to tr so

James Egidio: 1:05:17

they’re talking about quantum computing too,which we’re talking care.We’re ratting it up even higher.

Oram Miller: 1:05:22

All here’s the thing.It’s really important for all of us in the e EMF community,no matter what it is that we’re talking about,to understand,to seek out the facts about the technology,how it behaves,how it transmits,constant intermittent,what are the frequencies,what are the wavelengths,what is the power density?What is the modulation,the polarization,digitization of the signal based on,standalone technology versus nons,standalone massive mimo versus two T,two R,four t4,r4G versus5g.All of these changes the densification,the256Quadrature amplitude modulation versus the64that they’ve been using.What else?Just all these different things that are in release15,16,17from the3G PP.That’s what we need to pay attention to and focus on,because that explains what the effect is gonna be on people.And then is it close or is it,where do people hold this?What’s the power density at this distance?And at this distance,all of this has to be taken into consideration.So when we talk about tattoos wherever they are,or brain chips or any things under the skin like you do with dogs,or they want to put’em in people.How much power are we talking about?What are the frequencies?What are the wavelengths?

James Egidio: 1:06:30

But I think the But I think the other thing too is the amount of control that somebody has some command center over you,

Oram Miller: 1:06:36

James.I don’t get into that.

James Egidio: 1:06:37

No,I understand.Other,I’m just saying

Oram Miller: 1:06:39

and I know it’s very crucial.It’s really important.I get that.But I’m overwhelmed.I can’t keep up with the demand just for my services.People call me every day,I get emails and probably from this podcast I’m gonna get a lot more.And that’s just the way it goes.But,and so I respect that and I but my contribution is to work with the engineers and to figure out what are the health impacts from the technology alone.From the radio transmissions.Of,of such a thing.Yeah.Okay.Yeah.But I’m telling you,we’ve got earbuds,we’ve got these in our pockets.And then more than that,there’s medical devices that people are wearing now.

James Egidio: 1:07:15

Yeah.Fitbits.

Oram Miller: 1:07:16

That too.You know your Fitbit and your,I iWatch your Apple watch,those things constantly transmit.Now you can put’em in airplane mode,at least the apple you can turn on just like it has the same oppor.Sure.It looks like it has the same operating system as an iPhone.So you can bring up.Airplane mode,and you’ve gotta make sure that when you put your whatever in airplane mode whether it’s an Android or an iPhone,that you have to make sure that wifi and Bluetooth are OFF not connected.It’s not the same.It’s still transmit OFF and then it’s not transmitting and then you need to get a meter,either this one or it’s baby brother,the safe and sound classic two,Roman numeral two,and get and then,because that’s only$155Oh,okay.Which and the only difference is that’s the same quality of radio same sensitivity of the radio receiver or the radio measuring frequency.And has a speaker,the same quality of sound,just a little bit smaller speaker,but it,and it has the LED lights.And then it has numbers of micro from meter squared for each light.It just doesn’t have a display.You don’t actually see numbers on there like you do here.Yeah.But you can tell,yeah.By the way I turned I put in a,I have a wireless access point across the room.That’s what you’re hearing here.Here here.

James Egidio: 1:08:27

What is that?Transmitting The your speaker and

Oram Miller: 1:08:30

Wifi.Wifi.The wifi.And so this is what wifi sounds like.Tick tick,tick,tick.Oh,really?Yeah.No.Lemme turn that off.

James Egidio: 1:08:37

Okay,now you sure that’s not aliens?

Oram Miller: 1:08:39

Now this,wait,this is let’s see.

James Egidio: 1:08:41

You sure That’s not aliens there,Oram?

Oram Miller: 1:08:44

Nope.I hope don’t,I hope I don’t have aliens in my house.Oh you know what?My my frontier fiber internet,ONT box.Optical network transfer is down here.It’s,it has a transmitter.I can’t turn off my router’s over here.I’ve got that turned off and there’s no wifi in anything on my desk here.It’s all hardwire.But I have fiber internet down here and I can’t turn that thing off.And that’s right in my room and I’ve got it doubly shielded.So that’s why I still have some RF here.

James Egidio: 1:09:09

Let me ask you a question.When you hardwired to your wifi the,how much does that minimize the radio frequency?

Oram Miller: 1:09:17

Okay,good question.People will plug in an ethernet cable to their laptop to their desktop or even with an adapter to their phone or iPad.And they’ll,but particularly a laptop.James,let’s just talk about that.Yeah.A laptop.And I’ll come to the home and I’ll turn this on and it’s transmitted on their laptop.And they say,Oram,what’s that sound?They say,it’s your wifi.I’m what?I’m on your laptop right in front of you.And they say,no I have a,I have an issue.I said,I see that.And then I asked them,did you turn off the wifi when you plugged this in?They said,no.Was I supposed to,where did you learn that?Yes,you have to.And they said,but I assume that plugging this in turns off the wifi automatically.No.You must do that manually.

James Egidio: 1:09:56

But it does minimize it completely.

Oram Miller: 1:09:58

It eliminates it completely.Yes.It’s either off.

James Egidio: 1:10:02

So wifi,sitting with your wifi by your laptop.If it’s across from,like in this case,it’s across from me on wifi,that would help a lot with minimizing the amount of radiation that’s coming off of the wifi then,is what you’re saying?

Oram Miller: 1:10:16

But there’s two wifis,James.There’s the wifi from the router,wherever it’s located in the house,and then there’s the wifi from the device.So in every family I have to find out who lives there,how many people,who is the sensitive one?It’s usually the person who calls me.Do they have other people in the house?And how much are,to what extent are they on board with all this?Now,if the person who calls me is sensitive enough that they really need to not have any wifi,any RF in the house,that’s the most and there’s another person who lives there or more in the family.Or and so that’s the biggest challenge.And I say that because if that other person is not on board,then my client’s not gonna get well beyond a certain point,right?Because I,because what I’ll do is I will isolate them as much as possible.I’ll say Now,first of all,at night,when you’re all sleeping,you can turn the wifi off.And we have ways of doing that.And because nobody needs it.And hopefully not.They have a ring doorbell and surveillance cameras,and they come up with all sorts of reasons why it’s gotta stay on.And they just keep throwing one roadblock in front of another.And I said,okay,we’ve gotta,you’ve gotta make some choices here,right?And,but my husband put in all this of technology.I said let’s get him,let me explain all this to him and he’s gonna have to make some changes and go back to the way it was10years ago when we didn’t have some of these like ring doorbell and simply safe and all that stuff,which is all electric

James Egidio: 1:11:36

and electric cars

Oram Miller: 1:11:37

plug and play.Well,electric cars are,no,they’re better.The big thing about electric cars,

James Egidio: 1:11:41

no they’re not.I like gas Oram,I’m sticking with gas.I’m old school.I still write checks.

Oram Miller: 1:11:46

Me too.I still have all of my appointments are still in a little paper.

James Egidio: 1:11:50

Yeah,there you go.

Oram Miller: 1:11:51

So I’m old School.But the electric cars have a high,they have radar,they have Bluetooth,they have wifi.Sometimes you can’t turn that off.And then they also have lots of dirty electricity jams and there are people who are really sensitive to that from the regenerative braking,cuz it is a Prius,it’s a hybrid.So when I break,even when I’m using the gas engine it’s charging up the batteries.Yeah.Yeah.So it flips back and forth.I can see it on the console.It’s going back and forth from gas engine to electric,back cuz it’s a hybrid.It’s still.It,it does,it’s not pure gas anyway.

James Egidio: 1:12:21

No,I like hybrids.I like to get a hybrid.They’re nice.

Oram Miller: 1:12:24

Yes,because I can go anywhere.I can go,300miles away if I need to.The first30is electric,but the next two70is all gas.And I,Gas powered car for that.But sure.So to answer your question,you’ve got this transmitter the wifi in the,in one part of the house,the person who’s sensitive is in another room.I I asked them during the day,where are you in the daytime?So they’re,so then they tell me I’m here and my husband who works from home is in his office over there.So I just had this conversation with a client yesterday who I was with on Monday,and they called me back and they need some clarification after ordering all the things that I recommended to them in terms of how to put it together.Cuz they have to transition from wifi everywhere.Which is assumed to be safe by the industry and by therefore,by the population.And,but I work with people for whom it is not safe,who have symptoms and who need to be isolated.So the wife is a counselor.She’s on Zoom from her computer.She works right when Covid came,she transitioned from her office to her home,and she does everything over the by Zoom.And she’s stayed that way.And she,that’s,she’s comfortable with that.And so that,that’s all wifi and she’s symptomatic.And I,I said here’s why.And your electric fields are high from the cords here.And you’re,and by the way,you need to have an ethernet cable.Sorry.The ethernet cable needs to be grounded.And this one is it’s shielded and grounded.It’s metal.Yeah.Yeah.But the other thing is she didn’t have this,She had the thing at the end here,which the earlier models of laptops from the MacBooks put this in the box.And a lot of people didn’t use it.They just put it in the drawer and they used a little adapter that went on and had the two blades that swing out,and then they plugged the transformer into the power strip or search protector or the wall.But there’s no ground.And so they put their hands on the computer while it’s plugged in to that power supply and they’re,and I measure the body voltage readings with this body voltage meter.And then we have the various cords that,that come with that.And the person is holding onto a cylinder here.It’s plugged in through this.And that’s the best way to measure electric fields,which we haven’t really talked about yet but they’re the most common EMF of all electric fields.

James Egidio: 1:14:34

And so we’ll talk about that next time.We’ll do,like I said,a two part series on this,more on the physiology of all this stuff.

Oram Miller: 1:14:40

And but that’s the unknown.And you need to shut off breakers in homes that have plastic wiring in the wall because they’re,the magnetic field will be low,but the electric field is high.But some of the meters that are on the market,even the,and I say this,I love the coronet and I love the tri field TF two,they’re great meters.And the tri field TFT was much more sensitive in radio frequency and electric field than the100XC that they had a decade or two ago.The black box with the tan cover,it is a tri field,and you turn the knob and you get to electric field and radio,and those are always very low.Now,the new one,the tri field two,TF two is much more sensitive.And I praise them.I give them kudos for that.Cornet is also very good,and I talk about this on my website,but I find that the if you have the The body voltage meter from from less cmf.It’s this one.And,you get various cords that you plug into it,right?This is a,this is only$89,whereas my meter,that body voltage is built into this.It was designed by building biologists for building biologists in Germany.Yeah,figure this is a$2,000meter.It’s three axis magnetic,three axis electric in the ungrounded mode the freestanding mode,but then we also can measure body voltage with it as well.So this is what we use in our practices,but it’s$2,000,whereas this one,this is the best way to measure electric fields where you sleep and at your desk for$89.Yeah,less than enough.And there’s one more cord that plugs in here and the other one here and here.And you can do the same thing as the$2,000meter over there for89bucks.

James Egidio: 1:16:08

and where can the listers and viewers find that again?LessE mf.com.And then just look up the body voltage meter.And what is that again?Mention that?

Oram Miller: 1:16:16

Yes.Lessemf.com.

James Egidio: 1:16:17

LessE mf.com.Less emf.com.Okay,good.Excellent.Like I said,I’d like to get you on again and we could talk about more of the,say the physiology and you were talking about measuring.Let’s do it.But I really appreciate it.Thank you so much for Oh,you’re welcome.Coming onto this episode of the Medical Truth Podcast.And again,where can the listeners and viewers find you again on online?

Oram Miller: 1:16:39

So you’ll see here,CreateHealthyHomes.com.CreateHealthyHomes.com You put’em together,take the spaces out,just those three words.Write in a row.com.And that’s my website.And then when you’re on that website,there’s the homepage with a lot of information,but click on education and that takes you to the separate section with all the articles,right?All the way over to all about EMFs.You see the dropdown menu,click on EMFs.That takes you to a page with intro,introduction to EMFs,and a separate article on magnetic fields,electric fields,radio frequencies,dirty electricity,all about EMFs,and the education section of createhealthyhomes.com.Safe for use of computers,safe for use of cell phones,5g.It’s all there in the education section.But thank you James very much.

James Egidio: 1:17:22

Thank you so much.Orman,

Oram Miller: 1:17:23

appreciate opportunity to come and talk.

James Egidio: 1:17:24

Absolutely.We’ll have you on again.Thanks.You’re welcome,Jen.Thanks.All right.Bye bye.